Wayward Kickstarter - Dungeon Dive
6 hours ago
"He's the Fabio of the wood elves."
NOT the dry old B2 implementation that we’ve all seen before but rather something with a much more Holmes/OD&D feel to it. Transformation pools and weird edible mushrooms, strange machinery and the like. This is a kind of feel that I strongly associate with OD&D and try very hard to incorporate in to my own Magenta games.
Themed areas are great in a dungeon and I shouldn’t have to repeat myself again on why multiple entrances/exits are a good thing.I agree. I'm big on defined dungeon areas whether they're defined by theme, appearance, geography, or whatever. A dungeon has to be broken up into definable parts so the players feel that they're making headway.
I know that the mundane has to be there for the fantastic to have an impact but it feels like a bit much to me, although that could be personal taste.There's a lot of personal taste involved in this ratio, I think. It's an area where an excellent module can succeed or fail based on the individual reader/DM.
...some sections that I would probably give a hint or two about running … like the mushrooms or some of the wall carvings. The wall carvings are a great example. Some are worth looking at to get hints. Some are just flavor text. Some will do bad things to do. There’s generally no way to tell beforehand. I’m pretty sure the goal should be to reward interaction and examination. So while the goodies are present they could use a little more in the way of extra information to help run them. After all, the back and forth between a DM and player is what this kind of style is about.Emphasis added by me, on the parts I thought were key, here.
The group is supposed to fighting the intelligent guards of a fortress but they don’t really act in a coordinated manner.A very hard type of module to write, these are. Bryce suggests an order of battle. Not sure what he means, but against-the-fortress adventures can definitely use what I call a monster roster, and I think that's also what Bryce means.
The ONLY way you can approach it is through a straight hack. Sneaking, disguising, etc, are not going to help because it’s just a straight up linear design. That’s quite disappointing.For a paid module, this is a pretty good triad for a checklist: can you hack, sneak, AND disguise as possible ways through. I'm interested to see if there might be anything to add to that checklist. I think that "creative navigating" (through alternate paths) and "discovering concealed alternate paths" might be worth adding to the list. HOWEVER, for a free or a home-designed module, though, I think it's fair to say that a one-approach dungeon is perfectly good, especially if you already know how your group is going to approach it. Your gang of 6 barbarians just doesn't need a carefully designed multiplicity of ways to use disguises through a dungeon. So I disagree with Bryce's take on the module he was reviewing here, although I agree with the metric he used.
There’s a decent attempt at mixing things up a bit: exits through chimneys, waterfalls to the second level, a blocked off section and so forth. That good; far too many dungeons are just two-dimensional affairs, but I want more More MORE! More complexity!Yes, definitely use the third dimension! However, I think it's also worth remembering that they players themselves have to be able to assimilate what the various things are. I think there is such a thing as too much complexity. Where the line lies is probably not exactly a matter of personal taste so much as it is a matter of how a particular gaming group visualizes and assimilates a complex topography. Not all groups are head-down concentrators. Paul Jaquays said something on a dungeon-design panel at NTRPGCon, basically like this: "When designing a computer/video game, you have to work the player slowly into using the third dimension bit by bit."
Players like to recognize things. They like to feel like they have figured something out.One of the most important design objectives there is, in my opinion. This, and making sure that they have lots of meaningful choices (and the two objectives are clearly linked).
For all the asshattery that the Internet brings it also exposes us to new ideas and things that we would not otherwise ever see. Gabor Lux/Melan is one of those things.Very true.
Ouch! Nothing wrong with that, some of my favorite modules have a shit-ton of enemies in them. I like it!Large numbers of enemies = awesome battle. Always good. Don't over-use.
Number Appearing: 1d4+4
% in Lair: 10%
Armor Class: 6
Hit Dice: 9
Attacks: 4 claws (1d4+2), 1 bite (1d8+1)
Hoard Class: XX
The girallon is a fifteen-foot-tall albino ape-like creature, lacking hair on its body, except for its head, which also possesses a large, fanged mouth. A girallon has six limbs, the middle set of which can be used either as arms or as legs, depending on the circumstances. These creatures are strong and dexterous and possess remarkable intelligence, with some of them even able to craft crude weapons and other implements. Girallons typically live in small family groups led by a dominant male. Fortunately, girallons are rarely encountered, as they prefer to dwell in out of the way places, particularly the subterranean ruins of past civilizations. Girallons possess infravision of up to 60 feet.
Frank Mentzer wrote:
Yup, that's one of the notable differences between the two systems.
As you note, the OD&D/Moldvay/BECM/RC (ie Classic) version only suppresses your own sounds, while the AD&D 1e/2e version protects vs sound-based effects from monsters.
The AD&D versions reflect the progress of the game. Silence is really inconvenient for spellcasters, so it should be balanced by protection (vs harpy song etc).
From what I've seen, everybody playing Classic uses the AD&D version.
imo the Classic is version broken; you can't cast and you're vulnerable.
My bad. :/
Recommended fix: Best of both worlds
Silence 15'r: Use the 1e version; full sonic lockdown.
(level, range, DR, etc same as Silence)
(Why 20'? Why not? Avoids confusion with Silence 15'...)
Apply Classic interpretation BUT permit spellcasting & command word use. Does not affect incoming sounds. Commonly used to render party noise inaudible. The effect moves with the recipient/target; save to avoid, making it stationary (as with Silence). This may be used offensively, preventing a target creature from using a sound-based attack as long as it remains within the effect.