Thursday, January 26, 2012

5e Twitter from Deisgners Ongoing

This is a copy of the tweets so far with Monte Cook and other designers from some seminar that's going on now. I quit trying to take out the info that got copied as the result of a button; more of a pain in the butt than it was worth.

Gato, CH News Robot @criticalhits

Do you think D&D has started to take itself too seriously? Mike: D&D always needs an element of chaos, that can lead to silly or serious.
4m Gato, CH News Robot Gato, CH News Robot @criticalhits


How will it deal with more complex characters that take a long time to resolve an action? Monte: Big goal of design is to keep combat quick.
6m Gato, CH News Robot Gato, CH News Robot @criticalhits

Jeremy: A spectrum of complexity is available in 4e in Essentials vs. other classes. This spectrum will be widened in new edition.
9m Gato, CH News Robot Gato, CH News Robot @criticalhits

Monte: So a player that wants something simple can play it, but as the campaign goes on, can decide to add more complexity or not.
9m Gato, CH News Robot Gato, CH News Robot @criticalhits

What's the expectation of getting playgroups together with different styles? Monte: Want to make it possible to support multiple styles.
11m Gato, CH News Robot Gato, CH News Robot @criticalhits

Mike: There will still be room for DMs to customize in OP, but the basic implementation will be shared.
12m Gato, CH News Robot Gato, CH News Robot @criticalhits


How will the new edition address organized play? Mike: No specific decisions made yet. Want to make a standard set of modules used for OP.
14m Gato, CH News Robot Gato, CH News Robot @criticalhits


How easy it is to switch playstyles in mid-session? Mike: Modules will have a basic implementation that's easier to pick up and run.
14m Gato, CH News Robot Gato, CH News Robot @criticalhits


Open playtesting should begin in the spring, and will be available for all kinds of groups to run.
15m Gato, CH News Robot Gato, CH News Robot @criticalhits


Monte: For instance some DMs make their adventures via random tables. Random tables will be back, but not a requirement to use.
15m Gato, CH News Robot Gato, CH News Robot @criticalhits

What will be the role of random charts? Monte: There are different styles of DMs that are inspired by different things.
19m Gato, CH News Robot Gato, CH News Robot @criticalhits


Monte: Empowering the DM to make more rules calls allows the players to be more creative.
19m Gato, CH News Robot Gato, CH News Robot @criticalhits

What will empower the players to be creative? Monte: Moving away from looking at a character sheet for options, to limitless options.
21m Gato, CH News Robot Gato, CH News Robot @criticalhits

Support for new players? Mike: Complexity will be managed by products, all supported by the same core, and give the right experience.
22m Gato, CH News Robot Gato, CH News Robot @criticalhits


Jeremy: The playtests will hint at some of the options. For example, the fighter is also a noble which grants some social skills.
24m Gato, CH News Robot Gato, CH News Robot @criticalhits

Monte: Class customization is easier, while multiclassing is a more drastic change that is more of a commitment and rulesmastery.
25m Gato, CH News Robot Gato, CH News Robot @criticalhits

Audience Q&A beginning. Will customization be more like multiclassing, or within the class itself? Monte: Both are viable options.
27m Gato, CH News Robot Gato, CH News Robot @criticalhits

Jeremy: Use modularity session by session. No minis or dice rolling in city, lots of dice rolling next session in big batttle.
28m Gato, CH News Robot Gato, CH News Robot @criticalhits

Mike: A game that starts with a simple core, then introduce new pieces as the campaign goes on. Flexibility.
29m Gato, CH News Robot Gato, CH News Robot @criticalhits

What kind of modules would you use in your games? Monte: Use minis, but not super-tactical. Lots of social interaction and exploring.
31m Gato, CH News Robot Gato, CH News Robot @criticalhits


Jeremy: Adventures can be more customizable to account for a group's needs, and some can be more targeted to styles.
31m Gato, CH News Robot Gato, CH News Robot @criticalhits

Designing adventures for such a wide audience? Jeremy: Sometimes you make adventures that apply broadly, and some that are more focused.
33m Gato, CH News Robot Gato, CH News Robot @criticalhits

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Monte: Identifying a D&D ranger is like looking at whether it's best represented by Aragorn or Drizzt.
34m Gato, CH News Robot Gato, CH News Robot @criticalhits

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Monte: Part of the challenge is coming up with identifying what the D&D version of something "is," like what a D&D wizards means.
35m Gato, CH News Robot Gato, CH News Robot @criticalhits

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Jeremy: Of course, this means that often feedback is diametrically opposed. It's the designer's job to come up with new creative solutions.
36m Gato, CH News Robot Gato, CH News Robot @criticalhits

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Jeremy: Internal playtesting has been going on ~9 months. Main lesson is how diverse people's experience is with D&D.
37m Gato, CH News Robot Gato, CH News Robot @criticalhits

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Mike: Sometimes the answer is to provide the DM with more tools to customize the experience instead of making an entirely new rule.
38m Gato, CH News Robot Gato, CH News Robot @criticalhits

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Mike: Playtesting feedback will be considered carefully. The 1st impulse to feedback is to make a rule, which isn't always the right answer.
40m Gato, CH News Robot Gato, CH News Robot @criticalhits

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No matter what level, if the DM needs the party to encounter an orc, they can just open the monster manual and get a useable one.
41m Gato, CH News Robot Gato, CH News Robot @criticalhits

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Jeremy: One of the reasons behind this is to provide good world-building tools for DMs. An entire realm of orcs is always a threat.
42m Gato, CH News Robot Gato, CH News Robot @criticalhits

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Monte: instead of increasing attack bonuses, give higher level characters more interesting things to do.
44m Gato, CH News Robot Gato, CH News Robot @criticalhits

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Monte: wants lower level threats to remain relevant at all levels. Orcs start scary, become easier, but never are irrelevant.
44m Gato, CH News Robot Gato, CH News Robot @criticalhits

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Mike: disparities always develop the longer a games goes on, and they need to determine what that experience should feel like.
46m Gato, CH News Robot Gato, CH News Robot @criticalhits

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All in all, sounds like they're still working on it, but part of that is where asking play testers will come in to identify issues.
47m Gato, CH News Robot Gato, CH News Robot @criticalhits

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High level play: impression that all editions break down at some level. Trying to address those issues to let high level play work.
49m Gato, CH News Robot Gato, CH News Robot @criticalhits

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Mike: While the rogue may have a lot of exploration abilities, the customization may allow more "stabby" rogues.
50m Gato, CH News Robot Gato, CH News Robot @criticalhits

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Monte: "Bards can still kick ass."
51m Gato, CH News Robot Gato, CH News Robot @criticalhits

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Monte: The three pillars have helped the designers inform class design. It gives a lens to recognize each class's role in each.
52m Gato, CH News Robot Gato, CH News Robot @criticalhits

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Mike: Modules could even allow rules for a single story, like using mass battle rules for a session, or customized for a campaign.
53m Matt Dukes Matt Dukes @direflail

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Roleplay, exploration, and combat. No official support for rules lawyering. Sorry everybody. #dndnext #ddxp
Retweeted by Gato, CH News Robot
53m Gato, CH News Robot Gato, CH News Robot @criticalhits

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Jeremy: Modules would allow the game to shift styles in mid-campaign to react to DM and players' needs.
55m Gato, CH News Robot Gato, CH News Robot @criticalhits

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Mike: Even if the DM makes a very character-driven game, a player could still make a very tactical character and know what to expect.
56m Gato, CH News Robot Gato, CH News Robot @criticalhits

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Monte: DM can say that he's running a very tactical game, so it's a code for the players to make characters that work well with it.
57m Gato, CH News Robot Gato, CH News Robot @criticalhits

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Jeremy: Meanwhile, DMs also have optional modules to customize for the game they want to run.
58m Gato, CH News Robot Gato, CH News Robot @criticalhits

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Between the two fighters, one is more complex, but because it is a trade-off, they remain balanced.
59m Gato, CH News Robot Gato, CH News Robot @criticalhits

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As an example, the fighter is built on some core abilities and concepts. Opt-in to more customization to exchange core abilities for others.
59m Gato, CH News Robot Gato, CH News Robot @criticalhits

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So the seeds of any potential module are placed in the core game.
1h Gato, CH News Robot Gato, CH News Robot @criticalhits

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How to reconcile a modular system with exceptations of game balance? Jeremy: Each module is more of a spectrum approach.
1h Gato, CH News Robot Gato, CH News Robot @criticalhits

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Development team also handles the number crunching, like expected monster damage by level.
1h Gato, CH News Robot Gato, CH News Robot @criticalhits

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Jeremy: Each rule is examined for potential consequences, short term and long term, and if it's positive or negative.
1h Gato, CH News Robot Gato, CH News Robot @criticalhits

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Development team's role in the process. Jeremy: Received something from designers w/ goal, and determine if the goal is met or needs work.
1h Gato, CH News Robot Gato, CH News Robot @criticalhits

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Monte: The modules would allow you to just play the core game, or add on modules for heavily tactical games, or heavily story driven games.
1h Gato, CH News Robot Gato, CH News Robot @criticalhits

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Monte: In order to start, needed to distill down to a core game, a foundation on which different modules can be added on for all styles.
1h Gato, CH News Robot Gato, CH News Robot @criticalhits

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Monte: Designers realized that people have different desires and different needs when playing/running D&D, wanted to embrace all styles.
1h Gato, CH News Robot Gato, CH News Robot @criticalhits

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Mike: There are shared stories too, like a culture, in things like the gazebo or the Head of Vecna.
1h Gato, CH News Robot Gato, CH News Robot @criticalhits

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Mechanical elements of D&D: Mike: "First, here's what RPGs do. Then, here's what D&D does. Then you focus on the shared language."
1h Gato, CH News Robot Gato, CH News Robot @criticalhits

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Jeremy: "Synthesis between toolbox for creating worlds and stories... we're making magic plus good game design."
1h Gato, CH News Robot Gato, CH News Robot @criticalhits

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Monte: "I also like fireballs." Mike: "Players being creative in exploring a world."
1h Gato, CH News Robot Gato, CH News Robot @criticalhits

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What things the panelists would like to see carried forward: "relationship between player and DM" from @MonteJCook
1h Gato, CH News Robot Gato, CH News Robot @criticalhits

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Charting the Course #ddxp seminar beginning. Broad discussion about #dndnext, goals, challenge, etc.

11 comments:

  1. Wow. That actually sounds pretty sweet. Lots of old school influence; especially regarding the bit about widening the spectrum of complexity between character classes.

    Thanks for mirroring those tweets here.

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  2. Very fun and interesting read. Thanks for posting this. I was struck when I saw Monte tweet "Empowering the DM to make more rules calls allows the players to be more creative." I thought he was quoting your Quick Primer for Old School.

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  3. "Roleplay, exploration, and combat. No official support for rules lawyering. Sorry everybody."

    Love this. Nothing destroys fun faster than a rules lawyer. Not even the "bad DM" that 4E's copious rules were meant to reign in. Having my character arbitrarily killed sux but listening to some pedant pontificate for an hour is my version of hell.

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  4. Very encouraging stuff. Thanks for posting this!

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  5. It is looking good.

    Looking forward to seeing more.

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  6. Rolemaster. Will. Assimilate. D&D.

    The process began with 3e, but lost much of its grip for 4e. All signs point to Rolemaster re-establishing its influence on D&D in 5e.

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    Replies
    1. Agreed. Rolemaster Companion products offered an (over)abundance of optional methods and modular-bits for pretty much every aspect of the game.

      The first thing I thought when I took a look at 3e was - oh! Rolemaster lite!

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  7. Sounds very interesting, so far. Wish I was at D&DXP!

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  8. @Guy Fullerton - each weapon will have it's own mull-page critical table in 5e? damn! Can we at least cut things back to RM Express ;)

    I like RM but I don't see the influence.

    Then again, RM was initially designed as a graft on system to AD&D if I recall correctly

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  9. I'm exaggerating "assimilation," but there are a couple tidbits from the transcript that remind me of RM (in ways that transcend the various existing 3e-RM similarities, which are likely to also show up in 5e):

    System/Subsystem Modularity: That's one of the foundational premises of RM. Besides just the "graft Arms Law onto AD&D" idea, RM itself was chock-full of optional/alternate subsystems for adding granularity here, or detail there, etc.

    Orcs as Constant Credible Threats: Unlike the swords & sorcery-like AD&D (where high level characters gain short-term immunity from low-power enemies, because Moonglum shouldn't be killable in the first round of fighting against simple goons), weak monsters in RM nearly always have the potential to kill a high level PC on the first attack. So just about any sort of enemy is always a credible threat. And in fact, a phrase like "Orcs start scary, become easier, but never are irrelevant" perfectly describes how things work in RM. (Admittedly it also perfectly describes plenty of other games...)

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  10. Enjoyed this read and wouldn't have seen these otherwise.

    All monsters can be a threat when presented in sufficient quantities, but I like the notion that you have to "earn" the right to fight harder monsters.

    ReplyDelete