tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2296104283452210018.post7361978204734781260..comments2024-03-17T00:24:26.435-05:00Comments on Uncle Matt's Blog: Why I might not want you to play the game I publishedMatt Finchhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07678557558458924177noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2296104283452210018.post-60983291782147700462015-05-07T14:04:29.644-05:002015-05-07T14:04:29.644-05:00Hi,
I just purchased my hardcover copy of OSRIC ...Hi, <br /><br />I just purchased my hardcover copy of OSRIC (which arrived in the post from Lulu today). I`ve been playing with a free copy of the rules for a long time now (an entire campaign`s worth of time) and I absolutely LOVE it... as is. Finally owning a proper sleek, shiny hard covered copy feels soooooo good.<br /><br />I came into the hobby in 1974 with a original ODD white box copy. I stayed with this all the way through until D&D 2nd edition. To my lasting sadness, I completely missed 1st edition D&D at the time; and am delighted to be able to `play catch up` with OSRIC. For me, personally, I don't mind at all if there are changes from the original. I never SAW the original. However, OSRIC is simply THE preferred system of choice for me now. I`ve played for nearly 40 years, and it is one of the most versatile myriad of games I own. I`m strongly into retro gaming (as my own writing and websites clearly state) and OSRIC.... well its a superb system. I use it not only to play fantasy, but surprisingly it also works very well for Victorian/Pulp/Penny Dreadful type games (such as a "League of Extraordinary Gentlemen" genre of play).<br /><br />Excellent system. Excellent set of rules. My preferred game of choice alongside Rugged Adventures (which is another amazing retro-ish game).<br /><br />Steve :)Stephen Gilberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01704275344468801259noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2296104283452210018.post-35537251957977549582014-09-28T22:54:36.384-05:002014-09-28T22:54:36.384-05:00One historical correction: At the time Core & ...One historical correction: At the time Core & White Box S&W were released, the OD&D pdfs were still available on rpgnow. WotC didn't remove the OD&D pdfs until 2009 Apr 6. <br /><br />Some corroboration here:<br /><a href="http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=88&t=32059&p=629498#p629498" rel="nofollow">http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=88&t=32059&p=629498#p629498</a><br /><a href="http://www.swordsandwizardry.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=886" rel="nofollow">http://www.swordsandwizardry.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=886</a><br /><br />(Apologies for the necromancy, but I noticed the detail while rereading this post for unrelated reasons.)Guy Fullertonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12034114718540912559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2296104283452210018.post-16509001248193266842011-08-25T14:53:40.164-05:002011-08-25T14:53:40.164-05:00I love, love, love S&W Whitebox and I think it...I love, love, love S&W Whitebox and I think it's the best way to sit down and play the basic game.Keith418https://www.blogger.com/profile/01415688172194231214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2296104283452210018.post-50794185015139716632011-04-07T19:04:32.571-05:002011-04-07T19:04:32.571-05:00I come from the 83 D&D Basic era. I love Sword...I come from the 83 D&D Basic era. I love Swords and Wizardry since it is even easier to get people to play. Love it.Mike Moranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01473498510056803440noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2296104283452210018.post-6446290193070919922011-04-07T12:47:43.093-05:002011-04-07T12:47:43.093-05:00I agree with Guy....I've always found OE off p...I agree with Guy....I've always found OE off putting, for numerous reasons. S&W is flat out a better written game than OE, if for no other reason than it's benefitted from 30+ years of hindsight into the original system. <br />Even though I'm an oldtimer, I'm a bit of a freak, I admit, cause I'd rather play OSRIC than 1E also (although IMO the original PHB causes a nostalgic rush like nothing else when held and flipped through)Badmikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06199830751033032585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2296104283452210018.post-20625638965812719712011-04-07T03:20:13.056-05:002011-04-07T03:20:13.056-05:00Well, S&W can't really compete with 0E, as...Well, S&W can't really compete with 0E, as 0E is no longer in print and is no longer a "live" product. Instead, it serves as a monument for Gary's and Dave's labor of love by keeping the spirit of their game alive. And this it does admirably well.Omer Golan-Joelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09242085820257230639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2296104283452210018.post-55956544443195471882011-04-06T23:28:08.599-05:002011-04-06T23:28:08.599-05:00Great post, Matt. Very informative. (Although I al...Great post, Matt. Very informative. (Although I already was familiar with some of your reasons for producing OSRIC from various fora.)<br /><br />And I agree Guy Fullerton 100% regarding <i>Swords & Wizardry</i>.Akrasiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08734103159691571156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2296104283452210018.post-71311593235164885572011-04-06T17:29:39.244-05:002011-04-06T17:29:39.244-05:00So why would anyone want to play a clone again? I ...So why would anyone want to play a clone again? I kid, I kid. =)<br /><br />Thanks for the info on the formation of OSRIC. I think I was on a D&D/internet hiatus at that point. You were informative, yet entertaining.<br /><br />I'm glad I bought the 0E pdfs back when they were available, but I'm kicking myself for never getting around to buying pdfs of the supplements. Oh well. (and no, I don't want people to send me illegal pdfs)Bree Yark!https://www.blogger.com/profile/06805609633299134038noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2296104283452210018.post-51095816014638040852011-04-06T16:05:02.012-05:002011-04-06T16:05:02.012-05:00Matt, if you want S&W to be a jumping off poin...Matt, if you want S&W to be a jumping off point into the real 0e, you're not doing a good enough job!<br /><br />Or rather, you're doing <i>too good</i> of a job.<br /><br />Even if you ignore the cost consideration and the living game factor, S&W Complete is simply <i>a better game</i> than 0e. Yes, this is in part because of S&W's superior organization and collation. But it's also because of the writing, the illustration, and – perhaps most importantly – that it doesn't assume the reader already has a mature frame of reference regarding the games, fiction, and culture that helped lead to the genesis of 0e.<br /><br />S&W gives that frame of reference to a significant degree, and keeps reminding you of that frame of reference as you consult it during play. And given that these games assume/require a steady amount of consultation during play (if only to read spell and/or monster descriptions), then S&W is implicitly a superior game.<br /><br />Maybe this is a better way to put it:<br /><br />1e is awesome in part because of the non-rule content: Gygax's writing style, various illustrations, various layout details, the sturdiness of the books, etc. OSRIC doesn't have those things. And so there are very compelling reasons to lean back toward the actual 1e sources, despite the (modest) cost trade-off. (Strangely, although OSRIC has a pretty nice layout, there are aspects of that layout that are obviously inferior to 1e's layout. The PH does a far better job drawing the eye to headers that does the latest OSRIC.)<br /><br />The situation is inverted with 0e. S&W Complete has "everything" that 0e has (and then some!) to the point where the primary reason to consider using 0e is mostly one of research or scholarship.<br /><br />There may be some rules holes in S&W that 0e provided rules for, but that doesn't invalidate my point. You'd potentially go back to 0e to use 0e's guidelines to fill in those holes, but there's little benefit to using the actual 0e for much beyond that.<br /><br />Somebody could give me ten free copies of a re-edited 0e + supplements, and I'd still use S&W Complete instead of those. S&W's presentation and the extra included context are a considerable strength. Those traits really do make S&W a better game on its own, because those traits are things you interact with during play.Guy Fullertonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12034114718540912559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2296104283452210018.post-61920208046312844322011-04-06T15:51:58.152-05:002011-04-06T15:51:58.152-05:00This is a truly excellent post.
Even if I'm ...This is a truly excellent post. <br /><br />Even if I'm going with Labyrinth Lord for our next game. ;-p-Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02331863932906631618noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2296104283452210018.post-47252647963616479272011-04-06T15:17:10.898-05:002011-04-06T15:17:10.898-05:00Great post and thanks for the reflections.
Our fr...Great post and thanks for the reflections.<br /><br />Our friend "roleplay" is just trolling for attention - that same comment has been repeated ad nauseum over a few blogs and my own over the past couple of days. His commentary at least brought out a nice post.<br /><br />I'd like to mention something here that also was, I imagine, an unintended consequence to S&W - the link that people felt to the game, especially prior to the BBP/FGG deal. Unlike OSRIC, which was worked on by a few enthusiasts, it seems that S&W attracted a lot of people who put some serious time/energy/love into it. I'm definitely one of them, but there are quite a few. I think in some strange sense, given we were putting stuff on the forums and into the books that were getting published, many did (and still do) feel like this is as much our baby as it is yours. In a sense, we all grew it together once you brought it to light. I know the FGG deal especially rubbed me the wrong way, but I still maintain that emotional tie to Core and a lesser extend WhiteBox that I don't think was intended. The retroclones allowed us to not only have the means to get back to 0e/AD&D, but also participate in growing it, in shaping it and making it into something we all could be proud of. I'm not sure that could have happened prior to the Internet, but it's definitely a real thing.Michael S/Chgowizhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052820400496340137noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2296104283452210018.post-79248892793721072712011-04-06T13:43:45.131-05:002011-04-06T13:43:45.131-05:00This was a great post - I really liked learning ab...This was a great post - I really liked learning about why these clones were created and how their design principals were different from the get-go.<br /><br />For myself, I use OSRIC for my 1E game I'm running mostly for the reasons that you state - because my players either never played 1E back-in-the-day, or they don't have their 1E books any more, and they're not going to re-buy them. Even though I have all of my old 1E books sitting right next to me on my shelf, when I go to my game I just take my printed copy of OSRIC because it's easier to carry (1 book versus 3) and better organized. And I also don't worry as much if I spill pizza or beer on it as I would with my older 1E books.Martin R. Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11672657745232101753noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2296104283452210018.post-36051017610620468142011-04-06T12:55:29.610-05:002011-04-06T12:55:29.610-05:00I still have all my original books but never owned...I still have all my original books but never owned the 3 LBBs (I'm always on the hunt for those, however). S&W has been our go-to rule foundation since it reared it's head. I think the Living Game Factor is important too. Even though it's the "same ol' game" there was something about introducing players (veterans and newbies) to something current and alive and accessible.bliss_infintehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12433733609487959653noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2296104283452210018.post-69099222553383501082011-04-06T12:38:58.987-05:002011-04-06T12:38:58.987-05:00I am happy to tell you that Swords & Wizardry ...I am happy to tell you that Swords & Wizardry worked exactly as you intended. I am now a proud owner of the LBBs, Supp. I and Supp. II. <br /><br />We use S&W at the table and have been happily grafting on other rules to emphasis the parts we like. Most recent was a spell research mini-game based on the Expedition to the Barrier Peak's rules for understanding alien technology.Rob of the Northhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08970111441532206496noreply@blogger.com